Editor's note: the following exchange took place vis-à-vis Kevin MacDonald: Hormonal regulation of ingroup altruism on the Occidental Observer Blog.
MacDonald: “We already know that whatever psychological mechanisms we have for loving our racial ingroup are failing miserably throughout the Western world. One reason is that Whites do not identify with other Whites as an ingroup, so they don’t show ingroup love specifically toward Whites.”
Chris Moore [in reader comments]:
I discount drugging for this (Jews are probably some of the most medicated people on the planet, but still extremely ethnocentric), and blame Leftism/cultural Marxism AND White money worship, which today have synthesized into the globalization movement.
And whereas the lefties and political Jewry have set out to sabotage and poison Christianity and Western Civilization deliberately, and the money-worshippers have merely done so as a by-product of their amorality, the results have been the same. In fact, I might hazard that money-worship has done MORE damage to the West than Leftism via pursuits like importing cheap labor (Black slaves, Hispanic illegals), opening up the borders to expand the American marketplace, peddling dysfunctional behavior to advertise and sell a product, sexing up the culture to sell product, using their capital to insert amoral politicians who will dance on their strings (and whose existence in the seats of power has all sorts of other dysfunctional policy manifestations)…I could go on and on.
Interestingly, one reason the Jews are so ethnocentric today is because they are relatively tiny in numbers. Why is this, given that they are one of the oldest continuous ethnicities on the planet? Perhaps its because in addition to being self-involved narcissists, they have also always been money worshippers, which has resulted in a lot of peeling off, and a lot of epic blowback against their insane greed, which has resulted in the culling of their numbers.
And think about this: Whites such as Stalin, FDR, Churchill, and Hitler are responsible for more White deaths than probably all non-White races combined in the history of man. And if the White Bushcons had gotten their way, we would be dying in droves in the Middle East in WWIII against Islam today.
Whites who are serious about preserving their race will take a holistic approach that examines all the factors contributing to their current pathetic state and punish both the treacherous Left and the treacherous Right that has put them there; otherwise, they’re just spinning their wheels.
Barkingmad [in reader comments]: "You think that Hitler was responsible for millions of White deaths? He was gambling that his Nazis would win the war, that’s all. I would say that Germany was between a rock and a hard place and the Nazis had no choice but to try to get rid of the looming bolshevik threat. Germany lost. These things happen..."
Hitler was a gangster, just like Stalin and the Bolsheviks. In fact, he originally planned to ally with either the British or the Russians against one or the other (and did ally with Stalin for a short period in the division of Poland). I’ve written that Nazism was merely the antithesis of Bolshevism, but should caveat that with not the “true opposite”, but rather the relative opposite within the moral relativism of statist-gangsterism, meaning in part that while the Bolsheviks had a murderous anti-Christian fetish, the Nazis then adopted an anti-Jewish one.
And whether or not the Germans were pushed into war, or arrived there of their own free will and in pursuit of national greatness and growing space does nothing to change the truth of the statement that “Whites such as Stalin, FDR, Churchill, and Hitler are responsible for more White deaths than probably all non-White races combined in the history of man.”
What were the White pathologies that brought about the rise and mass support of these ruthless and merciless gangsters and a state of affairs that killed so many Whites? Yes, Germany got a raw deal following WWI — a raw deal at the hands of ruthless Whites, some of whom were collaborating with ruthless Jews. But why are post-Christian Whites so ruthless, and ruthlessly willing to collaborate with Jews? It’s usually due to White power-madness and greed.
This is where a generalized Christian consciousness HAS to come into play to prevent White greed and ambition from turning the components that comprise Western Civilization against one another — a state of affairs encouraged and facilitated by political Jewry, Leftists, and greedy White globalists.
I don’t want to sound grandiose, but I’m talking about the creation of entire Western Civilization cultural conciousness that punishes and expels subversives, saboteurs and self-serving gangsters. White consciousness is but one component of this. A return in America to Constitutional principles would be another step.
I really don’t see a return to White gangsterism in reaction to ethnic gangsterism ever getting our civilization where we want to be, long term. Hitler loved the concept of German culture, but hated the concept of civilization. I view White gangsterism is at odds with Western Civilization.
Some might argue we don’t have time for that; I argue we can’t afford to make the same mistakes as were made in WWII again. If we do, Whites, Western Civilization and Western Christianity are finished forever.
Andrew [in reader comments]: "You seem to be saying that Whites are their own worst enemy, because you are comparing raw numbers killed..."
I’m saying that White greed and gangsterism has historically had some seriously deleterious effects, and may well be the final mistake/nail in the coffin enemies of the West (including White leftists and Zionists) are waiting for. Corporatist-driven and Marxism-modeled “end of history” globalist ideology is one contemporary example of the threat that White greed poses to Western Civilization.
Andrew: “Your reasoning process appears to be that we can identify our greatest threat by who caused the most deaths. By this logic, heart disease is far worse a threat to Whites...”
Heart disease kills all races more or less equally.
Andrew: “The existential threat is the loss of the homeland to other ethnic groups...”
Absent explicit and implicit anti-White political ideology, in conjunction with a strong Western Civilization ethic that secures its borders and explicitly acknowledges the honorary place of White and Christian culture in formulating it, other ethnic groups merely exist in proximity, but pose no existential threat. It’s anti-White politicization and internal ethnic nationalist and identity movements like the Israel lobby and La Raza that automatically turn other groups into a threat, because these groups are politicized, indoctrinated into grievance, assembled by the Left into a block, and then leveraged and rabble roused against Whites and Western Civilization.
It’s also mostly-White, elitist international movements like borderless globalism that are responsible for the kind of mass dilution that threatens to totally displace and dispossess Whites.
Again, cultivating a Western consciousness in conjunction with expulsion and suppression of a few key political ideologies and subversive ethno-nationalist hostiles lobotomizes the threat without having to resort to extreme, destructive, and anti-Western wholesale race expulsion and warfare.
Andrew [in reader comments]: “You are correct that there is a globalist, internationalist agenda, which we can refer to as “White Greed”, the desire for increased wealth at the expense of ultimately destroying traditional America. But “White Greed” has been a minor player in the immigration debates. Consider the 1965 law..."
Here are some more contemporary examples. Amnesty for an estimated 12 million illegals was backed by the Bush administration and many elements within the GOP, and would have passed under Republicans but for a grass-roots rebellion. Now what forces do you suppose were at work to make this happen? Was it only Jews, who mostly don’t even vote Republican, pulling GOP strings, or was it White Corporatists and elitists pushing a globalist-agenda working hand-in-glove with their (mostly White) corrupt GOP cronies? Here’s another example: the Reagan administration granted amnesty to an estimated 3 million illegal immigrants in 1986. And how many millions more additional Hispanic American citizens, many of whom now comprise the base for La Raza today, did that result in?
And you say I’m naive? Take off the flowery glasses.
Additionally, it was White corporatists, globalists, and Judeo-Christians, along with Jewish Zionists, who lied us into the Iraq war, and have been pushing for WWIII against Islam ever since, which if successful will cost additional tens of thousands more White lives, and likely a multiple more.
Now these are all difficult problems that we are stuck with today due to the naivety of previous White generations vis-a-vis Leftists, political Jewry, neocons, Judeo-Christian Zionists and elitists White avarice and greed. But you only want to address perhaps three out of five of the problems on the list, and keep the Achilles heel of treacherous Whites wide open.
Additionally, the view that all of this can only ultimately be sorted out through some sort of racial reductionism and fracturing instead of through a cultural and intellectual imposition of Western values, ethics and thought on all people who desire to dwell in the West is itself anti-Western, anti-Christian, and politically naive.
Wandrin [in reader comments]: “The bulk of the white population are stuck between those who’ve been conned by the “left” anti-nationalsim and the “right” anti-nationalism with currently no way out..."
I totally agree, which is why I advocate libertarian nationalism as a step in the right direction consistent with the free-enterprise yet extremely patriotic traditions of the Founders.
Andrew [in reader comments]: "The editors of influential magazines such as the Weekly Standard (Kristol), think-tank theorists (Perle) as well as ubiquitous columnists and pundits (Krauthammer, Brooks) were the idea-men, not Bush. They packaged their ideas in a way that touched the heart of their compassionate shill. They were providing the drive behind the amnesty bill, in opposition to the vast majority of the Republican base...The suggestion that “White Greed” and wealthy corporations were a significant special interest behind the war is preposterous. The war was primarily Jewish-driven, for the purpose of increasing Israel’s security..."
I am sympathetic to your arguments, have made some of them myself, and agree with much of what you said to a point. I am as unsympathetic to organized Jewry as anyone (see http://www.judeofascism.com/ ), and in no way believe organized Jewry is being scapegoated.
But history shows that an easily corrupted White elite has a long track record of Faustian bargains with the Jews. (See Ginsburg’s ‘Fatal Embrace, Jews and the State’). Additionally, the military industrial and war-profiteering Complex is not a conspiracy theory, but is real. Eisenhower warned of it decades ago, and it’s grown exponentially since. Israel is the explicit, sub-text, and even metaphorical causus-belli behind so much military spending and warmongering today, it’s obvious that the Complex is doing everything it can to aid and abet Zionist Jewry. This means shoving to the front of the GOP dupes like Bush, and promoting warmongering neocons and their ideas at every opportunity.
Additionally, the modern, borderless, multi-national corporatist and international finance system and its Statist Trojan Horses (shorthand: globalist ideology) has some systemic flaws that are totally inconducive to sustaining Western culture and race, so while expelling Jewish nationalism to Israel where it belongs would be a huge step, unless we address the corrupting forces in our system and the greed that led to their rise in the first place, we are spinning our wheels.
Andrew: “The idea of a multicultural utopia created through libertarianism, where all races can live in peace and harmony, is an idealistic dream..."
I don’t believe such a dream is possible without a strong and confident White, Western, and Christian culture with defined borders leading by example, and slapping down and expelling ethnic nationalist movements that arise to usurp power. That said, I enjoy and appreciate the contributions that foreign cultures can bring to the West, and historically contributed to Western Civilization, and America. (The Chinese, for example, have dwelled in America for over a century without forming ADL, JDL, SPLC Israel lobby-type political agitation groups). It’s the rabble rousing and politicization of many of these cultures, usually by opportunistic Jews and ruthless White leftists, that turns them into a political threat to Whites, Christianity and Western Civilization.
The point I’m trying to get across is that White homogeneity in and of itself is not the be all and end all, is not even really feasible in the modern world and thus is utopianistic itself, and would likely almost immediately be betrayed by treacherous, money-hungry Whites or by nihilistic White Leftists under our current corrupt system.
In my opinion, what Whites should be working for is White consciousness and respect, and forming a voting block that secures the borders and punishes those politicians who succumb to Faustian bargains, be it on behalf of Zionism, globalism, leftism, money-worship or any other anti-Western, anti-Christian ideology, and that re-establishes a healthy social and cultural respect for Western Civilization and its heritage.
If this fails, then I think a race war will take care of itself.
Andrew [in reader comments]: "Different ethnic groups simply dont get along together. Can you name one successful multiethnic nation that has stood the test of time?...So essentially, its a myth that the US was ever a multi-ethnic, pluralistic society prior to the 1960s. It has always been White-dominated...Can you name 2 different ethnic groups in any nation in the world today with significant numbers that get along together and dont desperately want to separate? Can you name such a situation that has ever existed in history?..."
America has long assimilated all manner of disparate immigrant ethnic groups, from Mediterranean Italian Catholics to North Sea Scandinavian Lutherans, and everyone in between. Don’t be so unpatriotic.
Canada has managed to hold onto French speaking Quebec for some 150 years.
Wikipedia says today’s Russia is comprised of 160 ethnic groups speaking 100 different languages, spanning from Europeans to North Asians.
And those are just three quick examples.
As I indicated above, America’s primary problem today is a lack of assimilation, which is facilitated and encouraged by Jewish nationalists who don’t want to be singled out for refusing to assimilate, and maintaining a state-within-the-state, and by Lefties who seek to rabble rouse and politicize the different ethnicities, assemble them into a political coalition, and pit them against the White majority.
If Christianity was re-invigorated, Marxism was again harassed and repelled they way it used to be, and Jewish nationalism was repatriated to Israel, this wouldn’t be a problem.
In previous posts, you lay out the case that Jewry has been totally detrimental to the American cause. But in your last post, you state: “If the Jews were deported, it wouldnt change the basic facts of human nature, and the impossibility of a multiethnic state.”
So essentially, your letting Jewish agitators and Jewish nationalists off the hook by suggesting their actions have merely accelerated the inevitable — which itself is a classic Jewish self-congratulatory stance on how they are a kind of leavening agent unto the world.
You’ve succumbed to your “inner Jew.” Don’t be so anti-Christian.
Yes, in the end, every country is destined to break up, and the world will be consumed by the sun. Our responsibility as Americans is to perpetuate our way of life as long as we can. This means dealing with the Jewish question pronto, and it means working towards assimilation instead of following the Jews into their fanatic tribalism, which has long been a plague unto humanity.